I checked a French customer's financial situation, need help to interpret the result ناشر الموضوع: Christina B.
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Christina B.
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Local time: 14:17
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Hello all,
One of my long-standing customers, a big French agency, recently changed their payment terms. Now I send the invoice for month A in month B and they pay at the end of month C! After reading the post about the bankruptcy of another agency I began to worry. If this agency goes bankrupt, they will owe me 3 months of translations.
I just checked their financial situation on societe.com, now I need help interpreting the result.  ... See more Hello all,
One of my long-standing customers, a big French agency, recently changed their payment terms. Now I send the invoice for month A in month B and they pay at the end of month C! After reading the post about the bankruptcy of another agency I began to worry. If this agency goes bankrupt, they will owe me 3 months of translations.
I just checked their financial situation on societe.com, now I need help interpreting the result. 
On the one hand they have a very good credit score, but on the other hand they seem to have high debts. I am attaching a picture and would be very grateful if someone could tell me if their overall situation is reassuring or if I should be worried. (The figures are for 2022, the data for 2023 is not yet available, so it may not be of much use.)
This concerns a French agency, but as checking a customers financial health could be of interest to all, I am posting it in the English forum.
Christina
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| | | | Joakim Braun 
السويد
Local time: 14:17
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The endettement trend looks dramatic, but I'm not sure this stuff says all that much.
You'd want more comparison years to judge.
In any case the data is way too old to say anything at all reliable about today.
And what kind of actual figures are we dealing with? Many agencies are suprisingly small operations. A small company might be more risky than a big one showing the same chart percentages (because the owners might lack resources to add capital, company might be mo... See more The endettement trend looks dramatic, but I'm not sure this stuff says all that much.
You'd want more comparison years to judge.
In any case the data is way too old to say anything at all reliable about today.
And what kind of actual figures are we dealing with? Many agencies are suprisingly small operations. A small company might be more risky than a big one showing the same chart percentages (because the owners might lack resources to add capital, company might be more dependent on a few large customers etc).
A crucial item missing is whether they pay their bills on time or not, these solvency charts don't say anything about that, do they?
And unpaid bills will show up in public records a lot sooner than annual company data. Probably some kind of (département?) authority has the information.
[Bearbeitet am 2024-04-09 17:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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I know who this is, I used to do a fair bit of work for them.
They went bonkers hoovering up agencies (I think I heard some private equity people were involved).
I found that work requests were tailing off last year, so I asked why. A couple of PMs said the work wasn't coming in any more from end clients. I assume that is true (if I was just now too expensive, I think they would have said).
I noted too what I thought was a fairly high level of staff turnover.
... See more I know who this is, I used to do a fair bit of work for them.
They went bonkers hoovering up agencies (I think I heard some private equity people were involved).
I found that work requests were tailing off last year, so I asked why. A couple of PMs said the work wasn't coming in any more from end clients. I assume that is true (if I was just now too expensive, I think they would have said).
I noted too what I thought was a fairly high level of staff turnover.
I got the same email as you. They used to pay on the 10th of month C so on the one hand it's only 20 days different. On the other, there's been at least 2 big agencies enter administration lately that I know about, and I don't follow news closely so there could be others.
Let's just say that at this precise moment, I'm not so unhappy that they've stopped asking me. I think the 2023 figures for those charts would be illuminating. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Christina B.
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Local time: 14:17
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بادئ الموضوع
Thank you for your answers.
@Joakim
The agency claims to be one of the world market leaders, they have branches in several countries and an annual turnover of over 20M EUR. (I was surprised to see that they only have about 50 permanent employees.)
Yes, the figures are unfortunately old. So far, the agency has always paid on time, I never had any issues.
@Charlie
This is the agency I'm talking about. I've been working for them for about 8 years ... See more Thank you for your answers.
@Joakim
The agency claims to be one of the world market leaders, they have branches in several countries and an annual turnover of over 20M EUR. (I was surprised to see that they only have about 50 permanent employees.)
Yes, the figures are unfortunately old. So far, the agency has always paid on time, I never had any issues.
@Charlie
This is the agency I'm talking about. I've been working for them for about 8 years and they were really exemplary for a long time. Well organised, regular interesting assignments, the same experienced staff for years.
Then more and more agencies were bought up and since last year the PMs have been changing more frequently (and some of them are less professional) and I get mostly job requests for only one end client. (About 4000 words/week, human translation.) I really like these texts and they are a not insignificant part of my income, but if the agency gets in trouble I will loose a lot of money. That's why I'm trying to find some information that confirms or disprooves my gut feeling. ▲ Collapse
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Christina B. wrote:
Well organised, regular interesting assignments, the same experienced staff for years.
Yup, they were definitely OK to work for.
I should add I did actually check on societe.com that we are talking about the same company.
There were a couple of their end clients that I was the main man for
Then they lost the clients.
After a spot of resistance from me, I went along with their PEMT. Thing is, their engine (which I believe is their own, proprietary thing) is hopeless. Not even as good as DeepL.
Given that (for Fr-Eng anyway), ChatGPT is roughly = DeepL, and every end client must have heard of ChatGPT even if they haven't heard of DeepL... well, why use this agency? From the evidence of the TMs I have seen since the PEMT started, not everyone is as punctilious about their post edits as I tried to be
I'm hopeless at predictions, but I doubt they'll actually fail, not yet (unless the private equity withdraws). Don't bank on your human translation remaining human for ever, though, and if it does switch to PEMT, the end client might not hang around...
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Charlie Bavington wrote:
I'm hopeless at predictions, but I doubt they'll actually fail, not yet (unless the private equity withdraws).
Because I work for them, I started with one of them in 2007 and they were wonderful unitl end of 2022, anyway they always paid me until now.
Yes I know who it is.
[Edited at 2024-04-10 11:27 GMT]
| | | | | Well, at this point of danger, | Apr 10 |
you should say who it is to avoid others to fall into the trap.
Anyway, you should consult Payment Practices.
| | | | | Not sure if there is a danger | Apr 10 |
Renate Radziwill-Rall wrote:
you should say who it is to avoid others to fall into the trap.
There is no trap at the moment, like I said (and also Cristina) they always paid, no alarm for just a check of a colleague.
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Renate Radziwill-Rall wrote:
Anyway, you should consult Payment Practices.
They pay!
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Renate Radziwill-Rall wrote:
you should say who it is to avoid others to fall into the trap.
There isn't a trap, yet anyway. The thread is (partly) discussing whether there is one.
Moreover, although I do think the site rule should be relaxed for matters of cold, hard fact relating to business continuity (e.g. agencies entering administration), we're not supposed to name agencies. In this instance I'm inclined to agree.
They have always paid me on time (give or take the odd day sometimes).
The extension of payment terms is still within the letter of the law as I understand it, albeit contrary to the spirit of aiming for 30-day terms.
I've nothing against 60 day terms myself, not as a matter of principle. I do think extending payment terms after they've been the same for about 20 years is a signal that changes are afoot. But those of us who have worked with them have seen the organisation change radically in the last couple of years anyway.
| | | | IrinaN
الولايات المتحدة
Local time: 07:17
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| Opinion of a bystander | Apr 10 |
IMHO, payment in 3 months is a permanent point of danger.
As far as those numbers or any numbers are concerned, I doubt that an average consumer can derive any reliable predictions from it, updated or not. We all saw bigger fish crumbling down or getting swallowed in a blink of an eye, quite unexpectedly (for whom? is a big question ). Previously discussed agency went through 34 mil of start-up money faster than a meg... See more IMHO, payment in 3 months is a permanent point of danger.
As far as those numbers or any numbers are concerned, I doubt that an average consumer can derive any reliable predictions from it, updated or not. We all saw bigger fish crumbling down or getting swallowed in a blink of an eye, quite unexpectedly (for whom? is a big question ). Previously discussed agency went through 34 mil of start-up money faster than a mega lottery winner. To me, a sudden switch to a 3-month pay period could be an indicator of certain preparations for certain events, for which harboring somebody else's money against all laws and regulations seems useful for them but would be troublesome for me. Or, if your agency is not in any immediate trouble, then they are (or turning into) a dishonest establishment that harbors vendors' money just for a rainy day. Unfortunately, they know all too well that they can get away with 3-month payment practice (don't ask me why) so why not?
I would never work under these payment terms. I can't afford to credit a big agency. My bills come every month. I hope that at least you can put them at the end of the line in-between decent payers, just like translators are pushed to the barely visible end of the line for payments in case of insolvency.
Good luck!
[Edited at 2024-04-10 11:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Christina B.
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Local time: 14:17
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بادئ الموضوع
I don't think there is any "trap" either. (And naming the agency would be against the site rules.)
Like I said, I have never had any payment problems. The only negative thing I can say is that they are less organised than they used to be, that there is a higher PM-turnover and that the (new) long payment term worries me in these uncertain times.
That's why I wanted to check their financial situation and then I was not able to understand what the figures that I found me... See more I don't think there is any "trap" either. (And naming the agency would be against the site rules.)
Like I said, I have never had any payment problems. The only negative thing I can say is that they are less organised than they used to be, that there is a higher PM-turnover and that the (new) long payment term worries me in these uncertain times.
That's why I wanted to check their financial situation and then I was not able to understand what the figures that I found meant... ▲ Collapse
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Not exactly how it works | Apr 10 |
IrinaN wrote:
IMHO, payment in 3 months is a permanent point of danger.
3-month payment practice
It's not quite like that.
You do work in April. You send an invoice dated 30th April within the first 15 days of May. You'll get paid on 30 June. (It used to be 10 June)
Now, strictly speaking, that's almost 3 months for anything you did on 1st April, I'll grant you. But it's "only" 2 months for work delivered on the 30th of April
Personally, with very few exceptions, I aggregate all the work I do in a month into one invoice dated last day of the month anyway. Always have, for this agency and practically everyone else.
And the terms as outlined, per se, are terms I'm quite happy to apply with other clients.
It's the fact they are lengthening them after 20-ish years of always maintaining the same terms, that's the aspect that makes me wonder. Might be something, might be nothing.
| | | | Daryo
المملكة المتحدة
Local time: 13:17
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| A tricky situation | Apr 10 |
There is a danger of creating a "self-fulfilling prophecy".
If because of perceived potential troubles lots of translators walk away, the result is for sure going to be some very real troubles for the agency - and the remaining translators.
OTOH it might be nothing more than some new management being more stingy.
You need far more than the info on that website to have an informed opinion.
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